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English Translation Practice Thread
« : 1. 06. 2012. у 02.39 »
The thread is conceived to be a translation practice ground for English speakers on this board.

This is how I think it will go:

Every Friday (I’ll give my best to be regular) I will put up a post of my own, or someone else’s - just a part of it or the whole thing - to be translated in a week’s time by all the interested posters. The post, naturally, can be suggested and/or chosen by someone else too.

In order to keep the things interesting and proper, I think it would be good for the translations to be completed by Wednesday night and to be sent to me via PM’s, so that I could post them Thursday morning, for a day’s worth of discussion. Then on Friday the circle starts over. For obvious reasons, the whole thing would be spoiled if any ONE poster should put up their translation in the thread before the Wednesday deadline.

Since I’m a gentleman and I don’t shy away from an occasional kiss-ass :) the first practice post is written by our administrator Bruni:

Цитат
Standardni jezik NIJE obavezno jezik obrazovanih ljudi, jer NIKO ne govori 100% tim standardnim jezikom, nego unosi u svoj govor osobine kraja iz kog potiče. (Naravno da je moguće da se dosta tih osobina izgubi, ali uvek ostane makar nešto). Ima tušta i tma obrazovanih, čak visoko obrazovanih ljudi koji ipak ne govore niti pišu standardnim jezikom (Da li treba ponavljati po hiljaditi put profesore sa Geološkog fakulteta koji uporno tvrde da se kaže oBsidijan? To JESU visoko obrazovani ljudi, pa opet ne govore standardnim jezikom, zar ne? I ne vidim zašto ne bi nekom obrazovanom čoveku palo na pamet da pročita neko strano ime onako kako je napisano? Svakako da postoji manja šansa da mu to padne na pamet kad je neki poznatiji jezik u pitanju (nemački, engleski i sl.), ali što neko ranije spomenu, šta ćemo sa npr. finskim, i ostalim skandinavskim jezicima? Kineskim, japanskim, turskim, ili nekim još egzotičnijim, npr. navatl jezikom?

Enjoy :)
« Последња измена: 1. 06. 2012. у 02.59 Farenhajt »

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #1 : 7. 06. 2012. у 14.17 »
Only Šomi submitted his translation and here it is:

Цитат: Šomi
Standard language isn’t necessarily the language of well educated, because noone is speaking thoroughly in standard language, since everyone have characteristic traits in spoken tongue of the region they originate from. (It is, of course, possible to drop many of those traits over time, but there are always some remaining.) Great numbers of educated people, even those well educated, still do not speak or write in standard tongue. For the millionth time we go back to Geology Intitutute professors who claim that in Serbian "opsidijan" should be written as "obsidijan". They are highly educated, yet they don’t use standard language, do they? And I don’t see why an educated individual wouldn’t just read some foreign name exactly as it is written. There is certainly a smaller chance they would do that when it comes to well known languages (German, English etc.), but, as someone mentioned, what do we do with Finnish and other Scandinavian languages? Or Chinese, Japanese, Turkish, or even those more exotic ones, like Nahuatl?

Feel free to comment.

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #2 : 7. 06. 2012. у 18.42 »
"Because noone is speaking…" wrong.

It should be: …because nobody speaks…

Present Cont. is used for the actions in process, right now, while we are speaking, and here we are talking about a something that happens all the time.

I am not sure about the difference between nobody and noone, but for me, nobody here sounds/fits better.

"since everyone…"

A BrE native speaker told me "since" is too formal. I used it a lot, but now I follow her advice, and use AS or BECAUSE instead of SINCE.

"everyone have" wrong.

Everyone is considered as 3rd person singular. "Everyone HAS"

"Great numbers" (I suppese this was typo) = great number"

"well educated" is written with the dash. well-educated.

I wouldn’t say standard tongue. As a matter of fact, I am not even sure if there’s such a thing in English, as they don’t have any institution that would standardize the language. I would use "standardized language".
Цитат
For the millionth time we go back to Geology Intitutute professors who claim that in Serbian "opsidijan" should be written as "obsidijan".
This was in Present, and not in Past, and it was a question.

"Do we need to go back for the millionth time to the professors of Faculty of Geology (NOT Institute) who claim obsidijan is correct?

Pasti na pamet = occur smth. to smb.

well-known (with dash)

 what do we do with Finnish and other Scandinavian languages?

I would use here "going to", because Simple Future is used for future actions that are not planned in advance, and here we are talking about something that should be "planned in advance".

What are we going to do with Finnish and other Scandinavian languages?
« Последња измена: 7. 06. 2012. у 18.59 Бруни »
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #3 : 7. 06. 2012. у 19.04 »
Thanks for the comment and advices. As I said, I never learned English grammar properly, so I probably wouln’t have even recognized the first error as a mistake.

The second isn’t really a mistake, but again: you’d need a native speaker to tell you these subtle differences.

Those next three could be attributed to typos.

Standard tongue was my alternation for standard language, but maybe this is another situation where we would need native speakers to confirm this usage.

As for the rest, you’re absolutely right.
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #4 : 7. 06. 2012. у 19.12 »
You’re welcome. :)

I am not sure if language and tongue are completely interchangeable. Search in Google says standard tongue together with the adjective "American", and it is something mechanical.

Also, Wikipedia says that standard language is ok. Also, standard dialect, or standardized language.
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #5 : 7. 06. 2012. у 19.24 »
Thanks for the comment and advices.
Hope you don’t mind, but one more correction. Advice is uncountable noun, therefore, it cannot have plural. There’s also "piece of advice" which is used for warning or recommendation…

I’ll give you just one piece of advice: don’t do that!


 or you also can say "some advice".
Thanks for giving me some good advice… ;)
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #6 : 7. 06. 2012. у 19.39 »
Of course I don’t mind. I know, I also learned it like that and it didn’t even slip my mind, but I come across plural forms of this word more often than not, so I just went along with the flow, as there’s no regulatory body for standardized language. :)

I seem to remember you mentioning that sequence of tenses is not as strict as we were taught in school.
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #7 : 7. 06. 2012. у 19.47 »
Naaaa… :P No, no way! The non-existence of an institution which would regulate the language is NOT the excuse for such mistakes. The rules do exist, exposed in thousands of textbooks of English Grammar etc. who wrote many teachers and linguists, and one of these is that advice is an uncountable noun. I don’t know where you’ve seen/heard this, but I am sure it was not a native speaker, or even if it was, it was not educated at all. As we all know, native speakers ALSO make mistakes… ;)

PS:Who mentioned Sequence of Tenses? :-/ (I mean, here)
(It is not, if I remember well, for general truths. Maybe I look for some examples later… To be honest, I muself don’t have this very clear… )
« Последња измена: 7. 06. 2012. у 19.50 Бруни »
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« Одговор #8 : 7. 06. 2012. у 19.51 »
I am not sure if language and tongue are completely interchangeable. Search in Google says standard tongue together with the adjective "American", and it is something mechanical.

Also, Wikipedia says that standard language is ok. Also, standard dialect, or standardized language.

Almost all our study materials in linguistics were in English, but I’ve never come across the term standard tongue. Linguists usually say native tongue, but standard language.

As for the plural of advice, there does seem do be some change towards the word becoming countable: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/advice

Цитат
1. Opinion about what could or should be done about a situation or problem; counsel.
2. Information communicated; news. Often used in the plural: advices from an ambassador.

But (at least for now) this change (if it’s really a change at all) seems to affect another meaning of the word than the one intended by Šomi, and (as far as I know) not everyone agrees that even in this other sense the plural form is acceptable.
« Последња измена: 7. 06. 2012. у 20.02 vukvuk »

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #9 : 7. 06. 2012. у 20.01 »
There’s no change, but only another use which I didn’t know (like, people, for example. You can say people, but only in certain situations). Advice meaning just a plain advice, recommendation, warning… is still uncountable noun.

As far as tongue is concerned, and as far as I know, only in the expression "mother tongue". Now I know another one —  native tongue :) which basically means the same…
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #10 : 7. 06. 2012. у 20.05 »
As far as tongue is concerned, and as far as I know, only in the expression "mother tongue". Now I know another one —  native tongue :) which basically means the same…

Yes, mother tongue and native tongue are used interchangeably.

As for standard language, in addition to the previously mentioned alternatives, one may also say standard variety.
« Последња измена: 7. 06. 2012. у 20.11 vukvuk »

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #11 : 7. 06. 2012. у 21.35 »
Just some suggestions thus far missed:

Цитат: Šomi
Standard language isn’t necessarily the language of well educated, because noone is speaking thoroughly in standard language, since everyone have characteristic traits in spoken tongue of the region they originate from. (It is, of course, possible to drop many of those traits over time, but there are always some remaining.) Great numbers of educated people, even those well educated, still do not speak or write in standard tongue. For the millionth time we go back to Geology Intitutute professors who claim that in Serbian "opsidijan" should be written as "obsidijan". They are highly educated, yet they don’t use standard language, do they? And I don’t see why an educated individual wouldn’t just read some foreign name exactly as it is written. There is certainly a smaller chance (1) they would do that when it comes to well known languages (German, English etc.), but, as someone mentioned, what do we do with Finnish and other Scandinavian languages? Or Chinese, Japanese, Turkish, or even those (2) more exotic ones, like Nahuatl?

1. Although this solution is not incorrect, it is "transparent" in the sense that you can perceive the underlying Serbian syntax of the original. A better solution would be "It is certainly less likely".

2. This should read "the". "Those" and "the" are not interchangeable in this position.

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #12 : 7. 06. 2012. у 21.42 »
This one was also missed, I believe:
Цитат
because noone is speaking thoroughly in standard language
I wouldn’t say that thoroughly fits here: instead, I’d use completely or entirely. We can e.g. talk thoroughly about our problem (i.e. in detail, from every aspect), but we hardly speak thoroughly.

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« Одговор #13 : 7. 06. 2012. у 21.49 »
I think Šomi won’t be too eager to submit another translation after you’ve dissected this one this thoroughly. :P

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #14 : 7. 06. 2012. у 21.59 »
I think Šomi won’t be too eager to submit another translation after you’ve dissected this one this thoroughly. :P

On the contrary. Practice makes perfect, and one should learn from his mistakes. :)

I appreciate all suggestions, thanks. Both Farenhajt and Duja are right.
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #15 : 7. 06. 2012. у 22.03 »
This one was also missed, I believe:
Цитат
because noone is speaking thoroughly in standard language
I wouldn’t say that thoroughly fits here: instead, I’d use completely or entirely. We can e.g. talk thoroughly about our problem (i.e. in detail, from every aspect), but we hardly speak thoroughly.

You’re right. And since the claim is general, the Present Simple should be used: "Noone speaks standard language completely/entirely/constantly/all the time".

EDIT: Bruni already covered the simple vs. continuous thing. Sorry.

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #16 : 8. 06. 2012. у 00.13 »
"Noone speaks standard language completely/entirely/constantly/all the time".
Am I the only one who finds this extremely awkward i.e. incorrect?

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #17 : 8. 06. 2012. у 00.16 »
It is correct, though some find it visually awkward (because of the double o).

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #18 : 8. 06. 2012. у 00.47 »
That reminds me of a funny situation in House MD: he doesn’t concur with the diagnosis of his proteges and says "There’s something called ’blued’ in his pleural effusion." Of course, the word is "blood", but he deliberately read it the wrong way, e.g. double "o" as /u/. :D
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #19 : 8. 06. 2012. у 01.01 »
Exactly. :D

"Noone" is formed for consistency with "nobody", and also its opposites "anyone" and "everyone", but is considered nonstandard by some because of the doubled vowels creating a temptation to read and pronounce it as "noon" (/nuːn/).
« Последња измена: 8. 06. 2012. у 01.05 Rancher »

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #20 : 8. 06. 2012. у 02.21 »
…The rules do exist, exposed in thousands of textbooks of English Grammar etc. …

Not a good word in this context - it would be understood as "shown for what they really are, unmasked". Better to use "expounded" or "set forth".

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #21 : 8. 06. 2012. у 02.23 »
OK, it seems we’ve shredded poor Šomi’s effort into pieces - but for a good cause :)

Now, it will seem I’m really into kissing some serious ass, but I’m NOT! It just happens that Bruni, usually more often than other posters, talks about experiences from everyday life, and such texts are much more suitable for translation exercises than some dry scientific expounding.

So here it is:

Цитат: Bruni
А шта ако нечије дете није немирно? Ма претерују. Као са оном нашом породицом у САД што замало да остану без деце јер су их пустили голе да скакућу по плажи! А ово овде није први пут! Пре неку годину, одузеше мајци старатељство над клинцем зато што му је лупила шамар јер ју је два сата пре тога буквално зајебавао, гађао је папучама и  сл. На крају се сам клинац покајао кад је видео како су због њега и његовог безобразлука мајку му ставили на стуб срама, издали налог да не сме да му се приближи годину дана и да плати неку казну, не знам да ли и у затвор да иде… Да ли ви заиста сматрате да је то НОРМАЛНО?

Deadline: Wednesday night
« Последња измена: 8. 06. 2012. у 02.28 Farenhajt »

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #22 : 8. 06. 2012. у 02.43 »
To raise my morale a bit: I was told numerous times by different people (since I use spoken and written German far more often and consider myself to be better at it than English), that they hadn’t noticed that the writing’s coming from a non-native speaker, until we spoke on the phone, where they could catch upon my accent.

And to lift it a bit more: it would be nice if someone else joined the exercise, so I could show (off with) my shredding skills.  [devil] Just kidding. :D
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #23 : 8. 06. 2012. у 02.47 »
On a side note: Aren’t there enough German speakers around here to organize this type of thread in German?

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #24 : 8. 06. 2012. у 03.03 »
Unfortunately, no.

Let’s just summarize my submission with all corrections and suggestions:

Цитат
Standard language isn’t necessarily the language of well-educated, because nobody speaks entirely in standard language, as everyone has characteristic traits in spoken tongue of the region they originate from. (It is, of course, possible to drop many of those traits over time, but there are always some remaining.) Great number of educated people, even those well-educated, still do not speak or write in standard dialect. Do we need to go back for the millionth time to professors of Faculty of Geology who claim that in Serbian "opsidijan" should be written as "obsidijan"? They are highly educated, yet they don’t use standard language, do they? And I don’t see why an educated individual wouldn’t just read some foreign name exactly as it is written. It is certainly less likely they would do that when it comes to well-known languages (German, English, etc.), but, as someone mentioned, what are we going to do with Finnish and other Scandinavian languages? Or Chinese, Japanese, Turkish, or even the more exotic ones, like Nahuatl?
Wook Karadzhitj, savremenik Jerneja Kompjutera.

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #25 : 8. 06. 2012. у 03.32 »
One last detail (sorry!) - "there are always some remaining" should be simplified to just "some always remain". The proposed construction with the participle is adjectival in nature and needs to be completed with a noun.

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #26 : 8. 06. 2012. у 03.34 »
Цитат
Standard language isn’t necessarily the language of well-educated * I think you either have to say the well-educated, or well-educated people, but wait for someone a little better suited than me to confirm (or disprove) this (and other corrections as well) *, because nobody speaks entirely in standard language, as everyone has characteristic traits in * I’d put one their here * spoken tongue * I’d still say language; I suspect tongue sounds rather poetic * of the region they originate from * possibly a better wording would be: everyone has in their spoken language / speech some traits characteristic of the region they originate from *. (It is, of course, possible to drop many of those traits over time, but there are always some remaining.) * A * Great number of educated people, even those well-educated, still do not speak or write in standard dialect * I’d, once again, use language here; dialect is correct, but it’s too technical for this context *. Do we need to go back for the millionth time to * the? * professors of * the * Faculty of Geology who claim that in Serbian "opsidijan" should be written as "obsidijan"? They are highly educated, yet they don’t use standard language, do they? And I don’t see why an educated individual wouldn’t just read some foreign name exactly as  it is written. It is certainly less likely they would do that when it comes to well-known languages (German, English, etc.), but, as someone * has? * mentioned, what are we going to do with Finnish and other Scandinavian languages? Or Chinese, Japanese, Turkish, or even the more exotic ones, like Nahuatl?
« Последња измена: 8. 06. 2012. у 03.46 vukvuk »

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #27 : 8. 06. 2012. у 18.01 »
Цитат
because nobody speaks entirely in standard language
And why not exactly as I said? Nobody speaks/uses a 100% standard language…

Vukvuk is right: A great number of.. I also think these "the" are ok.  "has" too. As someone has (already) mentioned…

…The rules do exist, exposed in thousands of textbooks of English Grammar etc. …

Not a good word in this context - it would be understood as "shown for what they really are, unmasked". Better to use "expounded" or "set forth".
Shown. :P But I am not so sure this is a mistake. Here:
a. To subject or allow to be subjected to an action, influence, or condition: exposed themselves to disease; exposed their children to classical music.

or…

to display for viewing; exhibit

Izložiti.

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #28 : 8. 06. 2012. у 18.17 »
And why not exactly as I said? Nobody speaks/uses a 100% standard language…

Or rather: …because NOBODY speaks (this) standard language at 100%… (I’m not sure about this at 100% though).

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #29 : 8. 06. 2012. у 18.23 »
And why not exactly as I said? Nobody speaks/uses a 100% standard language…

Or rather: …because NOBODY speaks (this) standard language at 100%… (I’m not sure about this at 100% though).
It seems ok.
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #30 : 8. 06. 2012. у 19.14 »
Now, it will seem I’m really into kissing some serious ass, but I’m NOT! It just happens that Bruni, usually more often than other posters, talks about experiences from everyday life, and such texts are much more suitable for translation exercises than some dry scientific expounding.

Damn, I was ready to take my share of public shame, typed in the whole translation, and then hit the wrong button. This @#$!$!% laptop has the "back" button right next to arrow buttons, and the edit box contents are not cached :(( Sorry folks, I don’t have the nerve to do it again.

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #31 : 8. 06. 2012. у 19.38 »
Hm, F. just a little question. What’s the point to send you the translation first, if you don’t do anything with it, except you post it here?

and the edit box contents are not cached
In Wikipedia they are… :P
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #32 : 8. 06. 2012. у 19.51 »
Цитат
because nobody speaks entirely in standard language
And why not exactly as I said? Nobody speaks/uses a 100% standard language…

Vukvuk is right: A great number of.. I also think these "the" are ok.  "has" too. As someone has (already) mentioned…

…The rules do exist, exposed in thousands of textbooks of English Grammar etc. …

Not a good word in this context - it would be understood as "shown for what they really are, unmasked". Better to use "expounded" or "set forth".
Shown. :P But I am not so sure this is a mistake. Here:
a. To subject or allow to be subjected to an action, influence, or condition: exposed themselves to disease; exposed their children to classical music.

or…

to display for viewing; exhibit

Izložiti.

Yes, it does mean "izložiti eksponat", but it doesn’t mean "izložiti materiju, gradivo i sl.". One of the verbs suitable for the latter sense is "to expound = to explain by setting forth in careful and often elaborate detail".

As for your other question, what would be e.g. your motivation to translate the exercise text if someone posts their solution publicly? The point of submitting the translations privately is to post them all at the same time, so that they wouldn’t influence each other.
« Последња измена: 8. 06. 2012. у 19.59 Farenhajt »

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #33 : 8. 06. 2012. у 20.05 »
Ah, so there were more translations, not only Shomi?

Teorija is the same as gradivo, materija, isn’t it?

Expose the theory
20.800 hits
« Последња измена: 8. 06. 2012. у 20.09 Бруни »
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #34 : 8. 06. 2012. у 20.20 »
Yes, there were 163 translations, but I decided not to put them up.  :-/ I can’t really comprehend what is so difficult to understand about the concept. You translate the text for yourself and you don’t get to see anyone else’s translation before the deadline.

The very first of those hits:

"They criticized certain aspects and hypotheses but were unable to expose the theory’s unscholarly character." - expose = unmask

Another one:

"the principle that a scientific theory must make predictions that are specific enough to expose the theory to the possibility of disconfirmation." - expose = izvrgnuti

Never mind, I won’t be drawn into an argument. One word is superior to another as its meaning is more precise and better suited to the context in question, but you’re absolutely free to disregard that if you want.
« Последња измена: 8. 06. 2012. у 20.26 Farenhajt »

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #35 : 8. 06. 2012. у 20.24 »
Oh, come on, Duja, write it again, this one is not that difficult. I already completed mine. I suggest we move the deadline to tomorrow or the day after tomorrow.

No, there weren’t any other translations, Bruni, but we didn’t know that before Farenhajt posted it. I taught there were more submissions, at least three. :)
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Одг: Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #36 : 8. 06. 2012. у 20.25 »
Damn, I was ready to take my share of public shame, typed in the whole translation, and then hit the wrong button. This @#$!$!% laptop has the "back" button right next to arrow buttons, and the edit box contents are not cached :(( Sorry folks, I don’t have the nerve to do it again.
The same thing happened to me a few times, so I became more careful with it. Now I always use Ctrl-A and Ctrl-C to copy my writing, just in case. :)

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #37 : 8. 06. 2012. у 20.40 »
I am not questioning your decision, I just ask, so put your gun down sweetie, ’cause you are barking on a wrong tree [fsmile] . Women are curious by their nature, FYI. and I simply can’t help it.  :hehe:

OK. I agree with Shomi. Let’s move the deadline for tomorrow. I would suggest that candidates check carefully their translations for mistakes before the submission.
« Последња измена: 8. 06. 2012. у 20.44 Бруни »
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #38 : 8. 06. 2012. у 20.47 »
The same thing happened to me a few times, so I became more careful with it. Now I always use Ctrl-A and Ctrl-C to copy my writing, just in case. :)

Which doesn’t work in case of a power surge or a nosy household member, anyhow. :D You should save your writing every once in a while. I learned my lesson fairly early: In highschool I was writing some paper the whole goddamn day and went outside just a couple of minutes for a breath of fresh air. During that time my brother managed to close the program (it never occurred to me to hit "Save" the whole time), and I went ballistic. Several hours of toiling away went down the crapper, so I had to do it all over. Now I franticly hit Ctrl + S several times every ten seconds (maybe I even spend more time saving the work than doing it). :D

But I do actually think the typed text here on board is cached, because sometimes my session expires while I’m typing, so when I’m finished and ready to post, I click on "Send" and get the message I cannot post, since I’m logged out. I just log back in, hit the "Back" button, and the text appears in the box. I’m using Opera, so maybe it has something to do with the web browser.
« Последња измена: 8. 06. 2012. у 21.02 Шоми »
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #39 : 8. 06. 2012. у 20.50 »
The very first of those hits:

"They criticized certain aspects and hypotheses but were unable to expose the theory’s unscholarly character." - expose = unmask

Another one:

"the principle that a scientific theory must make predictions that are specific enough to expose the theory to the possibility of disconfirmation." - expose = izvrgnuti

Never mind, I won’t be drawn into an argument. One word is superior to another as its meaning is more precise and better suited to the context in question, but you’re absolutely free to disregard that if you want.
What about "expose the point of view"? 4.510 resultados
Or, expose the opinion?
Or, expose the lecture?
Or, expose the achievements?
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #40 : 8. 06. 2012. у 21.13 »
No matter what kind of amount of Google "evidence" you present here, that won’t change the fact that the sentence "the rules are expounded in many books" is better than "the rules are exposed in many books" - it is much more "real English", as opposed to "English by Wolf". Instead of feverish googling around for more and more constructions with "expose" - and counting them as if sheer frequencies are conclusive to anything - I recommend using any of many excellent English dictionaries available on the Net.

Sorry if you feel personal about this, because it’s not meant to be (although I imagine it CAN have such an impact). A comparable situation in Serbian would be, say, your sticking with "pravila su rečena u mnogim knjigama" (which in itself isn’t incorrect, but it IS markedly unsatisfactory) and me recommending "pravila su izneta u mnogim knjigama".

If you wish to proceed with this argument, I would like to direct you to PM’s so that we could go on with the thread.

Аутомодерисано.
« Последња измена: 8. 06. 2012. у 22.10 Бруни »

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #41 : 8. 06. 2012. у 21.23 »
As for the deadline, I would REALLY like to give Duja a chance to find in himself a motivation for doing all the work again. Hence, let him sleep over it, and the deadline can be moved to… Sunday evening?

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #42 : 8. 06. 2012. у 22.02 »
Nah, sorry. I’m in Canada at the moment, and I’m going back home tomorrow, then to a vacation  [plaja]. I probably won’t be around for the next ten days.

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #43 : 8. 06. 2012. у 22.06 »
Give it to a native speaker, he could traslate it for you. :P
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #44 : 8. 06. 2012. у 22.07 »
Or run it through Google Translator, just as good  ;)

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #45 : 8. 06. 2012. у 22.10 »
Google translate. :P :D

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #46 : 8. 06. 2012. у 22.13 »
No matter what kind of amount of Google "evidence" you present here, that won’t change the fact that the sentence "the rules are expounded in many books" is better than "the rules are exposed in many books" - it is much more "real English", as opposed to "English by Wolf". Instead of feverish googling around for more and more constructions with "expose" - and counting them as if sheer frequencies are conclusive to anything - I recommend using any of many excellent English dictionaries available on the Net.

Sorry if you feel personal about this, because it’s not meant to be (although I imagine it CAN have such an impact). A comparable situation in Serbian would be, say, your sticking with "pravila su rečena u mnogim knjigama" (which in itself isn’t incorrect, but it IS markedly unsatisfactory) and me recommending "pravila su izneta u mnogim knjigama".

If you wish to proceed with this argument, I would like to direct you to PM’s so that we could go on with the thread.

Аутомодерисано.


No, not at all, don’r worry. I don’t think we can say much more about this issue, so, let it be. ;)
« Последња измена: 8. 06. 2012. у 22.17 Бруни »
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Одг.: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #47 : 11. 06. 2012. у 19.58 »
Shouldn’t we discuss new translation exercise? The deadline was yesterday night.
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Одг.: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #48 : 11. 06. 2012. у 20.55 »
Oops, my bad. I have been distracted all day and then I’ve just forgotten about it. Sorry :( Discussion time extended - I’ll post the next assignment on Wednesday.

It seems that only Šomi is interested in this thread, since he’s the only one (yet again) who submitted a translation. Or maybe he’s the only one who has guts to let his work be scrutinized?

Anyway, here it is:

Цитат: Šomi
What if a child isn’t a rascal? They’re pushing it too far. Same thing happened with a Serbian family back in the US, where they almost lost their children, because they let them play around naked on the beach! And this is not the first time here! A couple of years ago, a custody of a child was taken from his mother, simply because she slapped him, as he literally teased her two hours before that, throwing slippers at her and so on. At the end, the kid was kicking himself when he saw how his mother was put up on a wall of shame, was issued a court order forbidding her to see him for a year, and was fined, maybe even prison time was at stake, all because of his insolence. Do you really feel that’s normal?

Discuss.

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Одг.: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #49 : 12. 06. 2012. у 00.22 »
Цитат: Šomi
What if a child isn’t a rascal * rascal may be too strong a word, I’d say mischievous or maybe unruly *? They’re pushing it too far. The Same thing happened with a Serbian family back in the US, where they almost lost their children, because they * had? * let them play around naked on the beach! And this is not the first time here * this thing here is not happening for the first time *! A couple of years ago, a custody of a child was taken from his mother, simply because she * had? * slapped him, as * because * he literally teased her two hours before that * he’d been fucking around with her for two hours before that *, throwing slippers at her and so on. At * In? * the end, the kid was kicking himself * or simply the kid himself regretted (what he did) * when he saw how his mother was put up on a wall of shame, was issued a court order forbidding her to see him for a year, and was fined, maybe even prison time was at stake, all because of * him and * his insolence. Do you really feel that’s normal?

Ja bih ovako. [pardon]
« Последња измена: 12. 06. 2012. у 00.25 vukvuk »

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Одг.: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #50 : 12. 06. 2012. у 00.58 »
Regreted! That word never crossed my mind, no matter how hard I tried to think of it. And others, too. I try not to use dictionaries when I translate, and sometimes there’s just a blank in my mind, although I know the word, or rather quite a few words for one thing.

As for the rest, you could be right. Let’s see what others say. (I never taught I was this bad at English grammar. [ccc])

The same thing, yes, without an article is colloquial. In the end I believe is also correct. This one too: this thing here is not happening for the first time.

Crap, I ought to use a dictionary now and then… And learn grammar properly.
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Одг.: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #51 : 12. 06. 2012. у 01.15 »
Well, I only can see you have a bit of a problem with using articles, and maybe present and past perfect, which is completely understandable, because there are no such grammatical categories in Serbian. As for vocabulary, we know from the other thread you scored very well on that vocabulary test, so I wouldn’t be worried if I were you. ;)
« Последња измена: 12. 06. 2012. у 01.19 vukvuk »

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Одг.: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #52 : 12. 06. 2012. у 10.31 »
Just a quick note:

Цитат
At * In? * the end

At the end —  real end of something in space —  At the end of the road.
In the end —  en in time, end of story, event, etc. —  In the end, they decided not to go.

PS: I just wanted to say that this is not only the exercise for those who translate, but also fot those who correct the texts. Bravo, Farenhajt, this was really good idea!  [pljes]
Don’t ask me why I am a vegan, ask yourself why you’re not.

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Одг.: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #53 : 12. 06. 2012. у 11.48 »
I’d pay attention to another aspect of the text, which is its (slight) colloquial style, which in my opinion must be retained in the translation.

The first sentence is "A šta ako nečije dete nije nemirno?" and not "Šta ako nečije dete nije nemirno?" - so it would be adequate to keep it: "And/but what if a child doesn’t misbehave?"

Then we have an expletive "ma" in the next sentence. Tricky one to translate directly, but there are means to do it. "It’s just too much, let me tell you" or "Whatever, they’re just pushing it" or "Boy, are they pushing it or what".

Also in the third sentence Bruni doesn’t explain there was some Serbian family in the US, she rather takes for granted the reader knows about it and will remember the case. Hence the translation: "Just like that Serbian family in the US…"

Also, "a couple of [something]" is a tricky expression, because, in spite of the official dictionary definitions, there is a GREAT number of English speakers who understand "couple of something" as, indeed, two or very close to two. (say, "a couple of years" = 22 to 26 months.) To avoid any possible confusion, it is recommended to translate Serbian "par godina" or "nekoliko godina" as "some years" or "a few years".

A sequence of tenses thing: I’d simplify things by saying "…when he saw his mother being put up on the wall of shame, with a restraining order for one year and a fine, I guess, maybe even some prison time…"
« Последња измена: 12. 06. 2012. у 12.32 Farenhajt »

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Одг.: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #54 : 13. 06. 2012. у 21.55 »
OK, the next assignment is a bit special. Instead of taking a post from this board, I chose an excerpt of a story in Politika daily. Besides, it is a bit longer than usual since there’s a full week to the next Wednesday.

Цитат
Ако не желе да смене једног човека, а 25 људи не жели да ради са њим, онда ће вероватно уследити велики лом. Да ли је то наше отпуштање, или је то распуштање Атељеа 212 оваквог какав јесте сада? Ако вам 25 људи каже да не могу да сарађују са Младеновићем, а он и даље хоће да буде управник, питамо се зашто? У чије име и у име чега остаје?

Ова питања поставили су глумци Атељеа 212 на бурној, изузетно посећеној конференцији за новинаре у овој позоришној. Своје захтеве глумци су образложили  у 12 тачака. Њих је, како смо обавештени, већином гласова прихватио Управни одбор куће, а писмо је упућено Скупштини града Београда, оснивачу овог позоришта.

О томе зашто глумци траже смену Младеновића, у писму је наведено:

„Зато што се управник, већ на првом састанку са нама, поставио као да је директор фабрике под стечајем. Атеље 212 није фабрика, нити је био под стечајем. Упозорио нас је да морамо учествовати у свему што нам буде понуђено иначе следе казне и врло брзо отказ. Зато што је од самог почетка потпуно игнорисао глумце Атељеа 212, доводећи са стране глумце, не уважавајући могућности сопственог ансамбла. Тако су у последњој сезони рађене две представе без иједног запосленог глумца, а у четири премијере на великој сцени игра само пет глумаца из ансамбла. Зато што нас је оптужио да смо оштетили кућу за велики новац. Те лажне и произвољне податке ставио је на нашу огласну таблу, слао их градоначелнику и тако, у покушају да нас застраши, укаљао част нас, глумаца Атељеа 212… ”, наводи се у писму које је читала Горица Поповић.

Till Wednesday.

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