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Ван мреже Farenhajt

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English Translation Practice Thread
« : 1. 06. 2012. у 02.39 »
The thread is conceived to be a translation practice ground for English speakers on this board.

This is how I think it will go:

Every Friday (I’ll give my best to be regular) I will put up a post of my own, or someone else’s - just a part of it or the whole thing - to be translated in a week’s time by all the interested posters. The post, naturally, can be suggested and/or chosen by someone else too.

In order to keep the things interesting and proper, I think it would be good for the translations to be completed by Wednesday night and to be sent to me via PM’s, so that I could post them Thursday morning, for a day’s worth of discussion. Then on Friday the circle starts over. For obvious reasons, the whole thing would be spoiled if any ONE poster should put up their translation in the thread before the Wednesday deadline.

Since I’m a gentleman and I don’t shy away from an occasional kiss-ass :) the first practice post is written by our administrator Bruni:

Цитат
Standardni jezik NIJE obavezno jezik obrazovanih ljudi, jer NIKO ne govori 100% tim standardnim jezikom, nego unosi u svoj govor osobine kraja iz kog potiče. (Naravno da je moguće da se dosta tih osobina izgubi, ali uvek ostane makar nešto). Ima tušta i tma obrazovanih, čak visoko obrazovanih ljudi koji ipak ne govore niti pišu standardnim jezikom (Da li treba ponavljati po hiljaditi put profesore sa Geološkog fakulteta koji uporno tvrde da se kaže oBsidijan? To JESU visoko obrazovani ljudi, pa opet ne govore standardnim jezikom, zar ne? I ne vidim zašto ne bi nekom obrazovanom čoveku palo na pamet da pročita neko strano ime onako kako je napisano? Svakako da postoji manja šansa da mu to padne na pamet kad je neki poznatiji jezik u pitanju (nemački, engleski i sl.), ali što neko ranije spomenu, šta ćemo sa npr. finskim, i ostalim skandinavskim jezicima? Kineskim, japanskim, turskim, ili nekim još egzotičnijim, npr. navatl jezikom?

Enjoy :)
« Последња измена: 1. 06. 2012. у 02.59 Farenhajt »

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #1 : 7. 06. 2012. у 14.17 »
Only Šomi submitted his translation and here it is:

Цитат: Šomi
Standard language isn’t necessarily the language of well educated, because noone is speaking thoroughly in standard language, since everyone have characteristic traits in spoken tongue of the region they originate from. (It is, of course, possible to drop many of those traits over time, but there are always some remaining.) Great numbers of educated people, even those well educated, still do not speak or write in standard tongue. For the millionth time we go back to Geology Intitutute professors who claim that in Serbian "opsidijan" should be written as "obsidijan". They are highly educated, yet they don’t use standard language, do they? And I don’t see why an educated individual wouldn’t just read some foreign name exactly as it is written. There is certainly a smaller chance they would do that when it comes to well known languages (German, English etc.), but, as someone mentioned, what do we do with Finnish and other Scandinavian languages? Or Chinese, Japanese, Turkish, or even those more exotic ones, like Nahuatl?

Feel free to comment.

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #2 : 7. 06. 2012. у 18.42 »
"Because noone is speaking…" wrong.

It should be: …because nobody speaks…

Present Cont. is used for the actions in process, right now, while we are speaking, and here we are talking about a something that happens all the time.

I am not sure about the difference between nobody and noone, but for me, nobody here sounds/fits better.

"since everyone…"

A BrE native speaker told me "since" is too formal. I used it a lot, but now I follow her advice, and use AS or BECAUSE instead of SINCE.

"everyone have" wrong.

Everyone is considered as 3rd person singular. "Everyone HAS"

"Great numbers" (I suppese this was typo) = great number"

"well educated" is written with the dash. well-educated.

I wouldn’t say standard tongue. As a matter of fact, I am not even sure if there’s such a thing in English, as they don’t have any institution that would standardize the language. I would use "standardized language".
Цитат
For the millionth time we go back to Geology Intitutute professors who claim that in Serbian "opsidijan" should be written as "obsidijan".
This was in Present, and not in Past, and it was a question.

"Do we need to go back for the millionth time to the professors of Faculty of Geology (NOT Institute) who claim obsidijan is correct?

Pasti na pamet = occur smth. to smb.

well-known (with dash)

 what do we do with Finnish and other Scandinavian languages?

I would use here "going to", because Simple Future is used for future actions that are not planned in advance, and here we are talking about something that should be "planned in advance".

What are we going to do with Finnish and other Scandinavian languages?
« Последња измена: 7. 06. 2012. у 18.59 Бруни »
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #3 : 7. 06. 2012. у 19.04 »
Thanks for the comment and advices. As I said, I never learned English grammar properly, so I probably wouln’t have even recognized the first error as a mistake.

The second isn’t really a mistake, but again: you’d need a native speaker to tell you these subtle differences.

Those next three could be attributed to typos.

Standard tongue was my alternation for standard language, but maybe this is another situation where we would need native speakers to confirm this usage.

As for the rest, you’re absolutely right.
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #4 : 7. 06. 2012. у 19.12 »
You’re welcome. :)

I am not sure if language and tongue are completely interchangeable. Search in Google says standard tongue together with the adjective "American", and it is something mechanical.

Also, Wikipedia says that standard language is ok. Also, standard dialect, or standardized language.
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #5 : 7. 06. 2012. у 19.24 »
Thanks for the comment and advices.
Hope you don’t mind, but one more correction. Advice is uncountable noun, therefore, it cannot have plural. There’s also "piece of advice" which is used for warning or recommendation…

I’ll give you just one piece of advice: don’t do that!


 or you also can say "some advice".
Thanks for giving me some good advice… ;)
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #6 : 7. 06. 2012. у 19.39 »
Of course I don’t mind. I know, I also learned it like that and it didn’t even slip my mind, but I come across plural forms of this word more often than not, so I just went along with the flow, as there’s no regulatory body for standardized language. :)

I seem to remember you mentioning that sequence of tenses is not as strict as we were taught in school.
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #7 : 7. 06. 2012. у 19.47 »
Naaaa… :P No, no way! The non-existence of an institution which would regulate the language is NOT the excuse for such mistakes. The rules do exist, exposed in thousands of textbooks of English Grammar etc. who wrote many teachers and linguists, and one of these is that advice is an uncountable noun. I don’t know where you’ve seen/heard this, but I am sure it was not a native speaker, or even if it was, it was not educated at all. As we all know, native speakers ALSO make mistakes… ;)

PS:Who mentioned Sequence of Tenses? :-/ (I mean, here)
(It is not, if I remember well, for general truths. Maybe I look for some examples later… To be honest, I muself don’t have this very clear… )
« Последња измена: 7. 06. 2012. у 19.50 Бруни »
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #8 : 7. 06. 2012. у 19.51 »
I am not sure if language and tongue are completely interchangeable. Search in Google says standard tongue together with the adjective "American", and it is something mechanical.

Also, Wikipedia says that standard language is ok. Also, standard dialect, or standardized language.

Almost all our study materials in linguistics were in English, but I’ve never come across the term standard tongue. Linguists usually say native tongue, but standard language.

As for the plural of advice, there does seem do be some change towards the word becoming countable: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/advice

Цитат
1. Opinion about what could or should be done about a situation or problem; counsel.
2. Information communicated; news. Often used in the plural: advices from an ambassador.

But (at least for now) this change (if it’s really a change at all) seems to affect another meaning of the word than the one intended by Šomi, and (as far as I know) not everyone agrees that even in this other sense the plural form is acceptable.
« Последња измена: 7. 06. 2012. у 20.02 vukvuk »

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #9 : 7. 06. 2012. у 20.01 »
There’s no change, but only another use which I didn’t know (like, people, for example. You can say people, but only in certain situations). Advice meaning just a plain advice, recommendation, warning… is still uncountable noun.

As far as tongue is concerned, and as far as I know, only in the expression "mother tongue". Now I know another one —  native tongue :) which basically means the same…
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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #10 : 7. 06. 2012. у 20.05 »
As far as tongue is concerned, and as far as I know, only in the expression "mother tongue". Now I know another one —  native tongue :) which basically means the same…

Yes, mother tongue and native tongue are used interchangeably.

As for standard language, in addition to the previously mentioned alternatives, one may also say standard variety.
« Последња измена: 7. 06. 2012. у 20.11 vukvuk »

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #11 : 7. 06. 2012. у 21.35 »
Just some suggestions thus far missed:

Цитат: Šomi
Standard language isn’t necessarily the language of well educated, because noone is speaking thoroughly in standard language, since everyone have characteristic traits in spoken tongue of the region they originate from. (It is, of course, possible to drop many of those traits over time, but there are always some remaining.) Great numbers of educated people, even those well educated, still do not speak or write in standard tongue. For the millionth time we go back to Geology Intitutute professors who claim that in Serbian "opsidijan" should be written as "obsidijan". They are highly educated, yet they don’t use standard language, do they? And I don’t see why an educated individual wouldn’t just read some foreign name exactly as it is written. There is certainly a smaller chance (1) they would do that when it comes to well known languages (German, English etc.), but, as someone mentioned, what do we do with Finnish and other Scandinavian languages? Or Chinese, Japanese, Turkish, or even those (2) more exotic ones, like Nahuatl?

1. Although this solution is not incorrect, it is "transparent" in the sense that you can perceive the underlying Serbian syntax of the original. A better solution would be "It is certainly less likely".

2. This should read "the". "Those" and "the" are not interchangeable in this position.

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #12 : 7. 06. 2012. у 21.42 »
This one was also missed, I believe:
Цитат
because noone is speaking thoroughly in standard language
I wouldn’t say that thoroughly fits here: instead, I’d use completely or entirely. We can e.g. talk thoroughly about our problem (i.e. in detail, from every aspect), but we hardly speak thoroughly.

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #13 : 7. 06. 2012. у 21.49 »
I think Šomi won’t be too eager to submit another translation after you’ve dissected this one this thoroughly. :P

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Одг: English Translation Practice Thread
« Одговор #14 : 7. 06. 2012. у 21.59 »
I think Šomi won’t be too eager to submit another translation after you’ve dissected this one this thoroughly. :P

On the contrary. Practice makes perfect, and one should learn from his mistakes. :)

I appreciate all suggestions, thanks. Both Farenhajt and Duja are right.
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